tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29724538.post4460944946429633707..comments2024-02-11T21:38:42.656-08:00Comments on mulling and musing: Thoughts on the Bloggernacle, Panelm_and_mhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00552368137212513094noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29724538.post-50726493106617158242007-09-30T14:47:00.000-07:002007-09-30T14:47:00.000-07:00Great post, Michelle!Great post, Michelle!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29724538.post-81688301515621084382007-08-30T07:25:00.000-07:002007-08-30T07:25:00.000-07:00You asked about feeling "dumb". I am not sure I c...You asked about feeling "dumb". I am not sure I can give a specific example, I have avoided most of the blogs for a very long time that they are far and few in between. I think what I notice is many of the "liberal" bloggers, are what I would term "intellectual". They use the tactics of debate and world views to a practiced precision. If someone argues the point without the same dedication, ITigersuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10375000801423259917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29724538.post-5144972560898957912007-08-28T16:43:00.000-07:002007-08-28T16:43:00.000-07:00Adam--any grounds for your suggestion that liberal...Adam--any grounds for your suggestion that liberals have fewer family and church obligations than anyone else??<BR/><BR/>And, actually, I do think attempts to recruit women's voices just because they are women's voices is misguided, as you may recall from discussions at T&S.Kristinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10801975801367100964noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29724538.post-33140717760827118652007-08-25T01:13:00.000-07:002007-08-25T01:13:00.000-07:00And I think Adam raises an interesting point. If w...And I think Adam raises an interesting point. If women were the ones being 'berated' (and people thought that was funny) and 'nudged out' (even if only on a couple of blogs) would we think that was harmless or tolerable?<BR/><BR/>I don't mean to harp on Lisa's words, but I think they do capture what sometimes happens, even if subtly, likely "both ways." <BR/><BR/>I don't think there should be a m_and_mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00552368137212513094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29724538.post-75028420118902319492007-08-25T00:58:00.000-07:002007-08-25T00:58:00.000-07:00Tigersue, for what it's worth, I think you have lo...Tigersue, for what it's worth, I think you have lots of good things to say and I'm sorry you have felt that no one listens. I hope that if you enjoy it, you will continue to share your thoughts. I know what you mean about feeling not smart enough. I think a lot of us feel that way at times, but I think it ought not to be. (If you listened to the recording, you will see that Lisa struggles with m_and_mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00552368137212513094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29724538.post-26626885300642096862007-08-24T11:06:00.000-07:002007-08-24T11:06:00.000-07:00I started to engage in dialogue on many of the Blo...I started to engage in dialogue on many of the Bloggernacle blogs. I soon discovered my opinions really did not matter, not to anyone. My comments were largely ignored, or if they were, attacks came immediately. Frankly I think many of us just avoid it because we don't need the grief.<BR/>Maybe that means we need a thick skin. I have no idea.<BR/>I have also learned through my journey that I Tigersuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10375000801423259917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29724538.post-72993291685630604252007-08-24T09:26:00.000-07:002007-08-24T09:26:00.000-07:00KHH, your 9:24 is very good. Your notion that the...KHH, your 9:24 is very good. <BR/><BR/>Your notion that the blogosphere is generally liberal probably says more about the portion of the blogosphere you read than anything else. To the extent its true, it probably has less to do with liberals being more open-minded and thoughtful and yippee-ki-yay than that the demographics of blogging skew in the direction of people with chattering class Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29724538.post-63433908620434433362007-08-23T18:02:00.000-07:002007-08-23T18:02:00.000-07:00Kristine, FWIW, I don't advocate an artificially i...Kristine, FWIW, I don't advocate an artificially imposed balance, either.m_and_mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00552368137212513094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29724538.post-65821083530349412452007-08-22T14:37:00.000-07:002007-08-22T14:37:00.000-07:00m&m, I'm not actually advocating anything. I'm sa...m&m, I'm not actually advocating anything. I'm saying that the open nature of blogging (no appeals to authority or credentials, free-form discussion, etc.) tends to attract people who are temperamentally "liberal." I think, given this fundamental reality, that the bloggernacle is not any more likely to attract Mormon conservatives than the rest of the blogosphere has been at attracting other Kristinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10801975801367100964noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29724538.post-90620185459554361692007-08-21T19:41:00.000-07:002007-08-21T19:41:00.000-07:00I haven't yet read all the comments (my husband is...I haven't yet read all the comments (my husband is impatiently waiting for me to realize it's past bedtime) but I will say that this is the sort of post I wish I could post, Michelle. I also wish I had seen it sooner, but I've been a little MIA lately.<BR/><BR/>I'll catch up on it later, but for now, thank you.SilverRainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00580230961425635077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29724538.post-81556533278029092272007-08-21T17:19:00.000-07:002007-08-21T17:19:00.000-07:00Kristine, I'm not sure I follow your logic. Are yo...Kristine, I'm not sure I follow your logic. Are you advocating that the blogosphere be wholly liberal? Help me understand why you think that would be helpful. ?? How would this be accomplished? By self-selection? By 'nudging out' "conservatives"? This one has me scratching my head. I must be missing something....m_and_mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00552368137212513094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29724538.post-28527060834964101482007-08-21T14:30:00.000-07:002007-08-21T14:30:00.000-07:00Here's an idea to try on for size: the blogospher...Here's an idea to try on for size: the blogosphere as a whole tends to skew liberal. Maybe it's better for liberal Mormons to be the ones representing Mormonism on blogs.Kristinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10801975801367100964noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29724538.post-26301425187564126042007-08-21T13:32:00.000-07:002007-08-21T13:32:00.000-07:00Thanks, Geoff. I was afraid I might have missed so...Thanks, Geoff. I was afraid I might have missed something like that.<BR/><BR/>BTW, my thought about this is not just concerning the press. I think they likely know where to go for official information. But I think I recall Lisa suggesting that some people have come to fMh as their sort of first contact with Mormonism. I wouldn't be surprised if that is happening more often, particularly with m_and_mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00552368137212513094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29724538.post-58966723668187263812007-08-21T09:13:00.000-07:002007-08-21T09:13:00.000-07:00m&m,Check the right sidebar again at ldsblogs.org....m&m,<BR/><BR/>Check the right sidebar again at ldsblogs.org. Those links to official church sites have always been there.Geoff Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01266385637915121433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29724538.post-77136355291778437872007-08-21T06:49:00.000-07:002007-08-21T06:49:00.000-07:00M&M, I don't think that you misrepresented me at a...M&M, I don't think that you misrepresented me at all! Sorry, I struggle with writing clearly, and I often come across much more sternly that I intend. I just wanted to say that in my opinion, I don't consider the problem to be conservatives vs liberals. Or even a need for more kindness, etc...<BR/><BR/>My concern kicks in, as you say so well in your last comment, when the larger world starts to Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29724538.post-40739245732602814072007-08-20T23:06:00.000-07:002007-08-20T23:06:00.000-07:00One other thought...I think one thing that trigger...One other thought...I think one thing that triggered my 'aack" reflex was the blurb printed on the <A HREF="http://kcpw.org/article/4184" REL="nofollow">KCPW site</A> where the interviewe\ with Lisa was posted. <BR/><BR/> "Say a reporter is working on a story about Mitt Romney and wants to know what everyday Mormons think about the would-be President. Where do they turn? Increasingly, it's the m_and_mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00552368137212513094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29724538.post-87257097404296603752007-08-20T22:43:00.000-07:002007-08-20T22:43:00.000-07:00arJ,If berating and nudging out happen at church, ...arJ,<BR/>If berating and nudging out happen at church, do you think that's a good thing? ...You have sort of made my point for me. :)<BR/><BR/>Jacob J.<BR/>These are good questions. I guess I'm hopeful that the misunderstandings and challenges are more at the fixable level, but I suspect in some situations that may not be the case. I think so much depends on our individual motives, then pooled m_and_mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00552368137212513094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29724538.post-81403788614417857322007-08-20T08:29:00.000-07:002007-08-20T08:29:00.000-07:00M&M,This is a useful conversation to have, I think...M&M,<BR/><BR/>This is a useful conversation to have, I think. We agree on some things, but I want to outline where we differ.<BR/><BR/>First, I think you are painting with too broad a brush. The bloggernacle is not an undifferentiated mass of monolithic opinion, so I think you are stretching too far to make Lisa's pronouncement about her blog apply to the 'nacle as a whole. You might be Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29724538.post-2036523028888932852007-08-20T08:17:00.000-07:002007-08-20T08:17:00.000-07:00Imagine if the tables were turned at church.You me...<I>Imagine if the tables were turned at church.</I><BR/><BR/>You mean they aren't? Ha!a random Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00171440665580964896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29724538.post-21796034700790982082007-08-20T08:08:00.000-07:002007-08-20T08:08:00.000-07:00Nice post Michelle, and great discussion. Just to ...Nice post Michelle, and great discussion. Just to be clear, in my comment on Dave's post I didn't claim that the bloggernacle needs to be nicer to conservatives, or that their voices aren't being heard. <BR/><BR/>I had 3 basic points:<BR/><BR/>1- There are a large number of Mormons who don't read or participate in blogs-- who in my experience (4 wards in 4 local communities in the last 6 years) Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29724538.post-62715198771931552702007-08-20T00:42:00.000-07:002007-08-20T00:42:00.000-07:00m&m,I think you are right that both sides can misu...m&m,<BR/><BR/>I think you are right that both sides can misunderstand one another. Each group is prone to interpret the other group in terms of stereotypes. We should all do better. I agree with you on all of those points. So far so good.<BR/><BR/>Here is the question I want to raise. Is it just misunderstanding that is at the heart of the problem, or is it something deeper? Are the Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29724538.post-32921606058155137402007-08-19T23:46:00.000-07:002007-08-19T23:46:00.000-07:00Thanks m&m,That helps. Especially the example of ...Thanks m&m,<BR/><BR/>That helps. Especially the example of gay marriage you provided. <BR/><BR/>I think you are right that the liberal/conservative labels are meaningless when the debate is over things like libertarian free will or viviparous spirit birth. (In fact political opposites JNS and Greenwood teamed up recently in a free will debate at the Thang.) <BR/><BR/>Having said that, I thinkGeoff Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01266385637915121433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29724538.post-4722114080116746782007-08-19T23:09:00.000-07:002007-08-19T23:09:00.000-07:00I think the problem I am having still is that sayi...<I>I think the problem I am having still is that saying "just look at any long post at FMH" does not really help us pin down what the definition of a "conservative" or "liberal" blogger really is. You seem to think you are conservative Mormon blogger, but what makes you sure? What is it exactly that qualifies you to be labeled conservative?</I><BR/><BR/>Geoff, something tells me you haven't read m_and_mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00552368137212513094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29724538.post-35216255579362836612007-08-19T17:10:00.000-07:002007-08-19T17:10:00.000-07:00M&M,I think the problem I am having still is that ...M&M,<BR/><BR/>I think the problem I am having still is that saying "just look at any long post at FMH" does not really help us pin down what the definition of a "conservative" or "liberal" blogger really is. You seem to think you are conservative Mormon blogger, but what makes you sure? What is it exactly that qualifies you to be labeled conservative?<BR/><BR/>The problems with that post Eric Geoff Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01266385637915121433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29724538.post-84141076224540418692007-08-19T14:46:00.000-07:002007-08-19T14:46:00.000-07:00Kristine,I DO hope that you will stop by if you ar...Kristine,<BR/>I DO hope that you will stop by if you are ever in my neck of the woods. :)<BR/><BR/>As to your comment, I think perhaps some conservatives are where you describe them to be (judging righteousness and feeling compromised somehow). But others of us want more to engage in discussion for reasons I listed in my post, and if I'm understanding you, I am not sure you see or understand m_and_mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00552368137212513094noreply@blogger.com